#007: Intentional Marriage Practices During a Crisis w/ Jordan & Christy Ogden.

Jordan and Christy Ogden from Marriageable.org offer immensely practical advice on how to make the most of our additional time together during the COVID-19 crisis.

Those of us hunkering down with others are likely facing an uptick in relational conflict, especially in our marriages. It’s simple math, really: people + confined space + stress = increased opportunity for conflict.

So how can we not only survive, but thrive in our relationships during quarantine? How do we build into our friendships and marriages instead of tearing them down?

Take a listen to Episode #007 and get some simple tips related to navigating conflict and building relational capital through: joint accomplishments, weekly in-home date nights, and more. Be sure to grab the FREE workbook on Conversation Starters for Investing in your Marriage, so you can be equipped to live the more of your marriage and relationships!

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Instagram | johnmiltonjordan // allisoncjordan 

Website | https://livethemore.com/

Transcript

spk_0:   0:02
welcome to the live, the more podcast where we explore going deeper and intimacy with God, finding meaning and satisfaction in our day and making a lasting impact in our world. All right, so welcome to the live. The more podcasts were super excited about Jordan and Christy Ogden joining us today. You guys were going to be tremendously blessed by their lives and their story and all that they do to blessed people's marriages. We've kind of taken a different direction with the podcast on that we wanted to create content that is a response to the Cove in 19 Crisis. And as many of us are at home and our with our families and are wondering, how do we flourish as a married couple and as a family? Ah, Alison and I thought a lot about the Ogden's and so welcome. Jordan and Christy were so grateful that you would be on the podcast

spk_1:   0:56
and excellent trot.

spk_2:   0:57
So got to be here.

spk_0:   0:59
And so why don't you just give everybody all of our listeners a chance to get to know you a bit more and just tell us a bit about your background and, uh, what you're doing as pastors, but also with marriageable.

spk_1:   1:12
Great. So we've been pasturing for about 15 years, and I said, We know John Alley from days in Dallas and we currently are leading a group of churches in Southeast Michigan. We live in an arbor, and we work with Mary Couples. Also worked with singles that are designed to be married. Uh, what? Someone in the future in their life. And that's that was the genesis of marriageable a few years ago. Was actually you could stay a little bit, that's for

spk_2:   1:46
yeah, we the way we just recognized that we wanted to help people with one of my discipleship groups. I was with the girl and she had met someone through a wrought dating app. It The guy didn't even pay for her coffee when they met for coffee a coffee day. He didn't even pay for her coffee. And I was like, I immediately heard that story and went to Jordan, and I said, we need to teach men how to be men and how to become more marriageable. This isn't how you should treat someone. And so from that we decided, Okay, we we love marriages. We've been We were high school sweethearts. You've been McGary for almost 18 years. We love marriage, but we also want people to like how the steps to be able to become a more manageable person and then also have performed marriages. Those five kids. So that's a big part of our lives, too. They range in ages from 12.5 to 6. So that's kind of us in a nutshell.

spk_0:   2:51
Yeah, that's great. Um, yes. So in terms of what Jordan mentioned in terms of how we know them when we came back from Budapest for after the 1st 2 years, we have lived in Budapest, we landed in Dallas and we were just like whipped puppies, man, we had just been through cost cultural living, and we're just needing joy and re connection. And at the time they were pastoring leading in any OCD Alice in your community church, Dallas. And, um yeah, Jordan. I would go over to your house and we would have early morning were successions, and sometimes your son Duncan would join us. Other times you wouldn't and ah, it was just awesome. Because here I was a working guy doing consulting in Dallas and yet you made time for me and just made a big impact on my life. And I know Christy, you made a huge impact on, uh, every interaction you had with Allie. I don't know if you want to speak to that.

spk_3:   3:46
Yeah, it's It's neat because someone at our church reached out to disciple me and you were disciple ing her. And it was just really cool to see the generations that you were impacting where here you were investing in people who invested in me and and really taught me what discipleship looks like So is really special to be

spk_2:   4:08
part of that community with you guys. Oh, we love you guys. Thank you.

spk_0:   4:13
Of course. So we're thrilled to have you guys on. And, um So I'm gonna let Allie kind of lead the way here because we really wanted to To give you guys a chance to encourage our listeners who, like I said beginning or at home and are wondering, how can they thrive during this time? And so, um, Ali, how do you want to start us off?

spk_3:   4:33
Yeah. So I think my first question during this time is, you know, we're looking around and there's new information. And every day there's, um, more restrictions being put in place are our schedules have changed, our work lives have changed. There's so much unknown. And so I look at this global stress that we're all experiencing and I'm thinking we're stressed out and and when we're stressed, that really puts a strain on, um, not only on us

spk_2:   5:08
personally, but also in

spk_3:   5:09
our relationships. And so I would love to hear from you guys like what impact do you imagine? Or are you seeing that stress? My play on relationships like our marriage is

spk_1:   5:23
no so all of this, regardless we are aware of it or not, are being impacted like you're talking about by stress. And what Christian are finding is that some people already have a some type of a regimen or practice where they de stress. And for some people, that is physical activity, so matter of exercise or something. In that genre and with the state home, Belgians are closed and so if you're a person that a The way I get that is, I pay money and that motivates me to go and do this thing. You're not doing that right now. And so if you don't have something at home that you're doing or you haven't adjusted than that pent up stress it normally has. A an outlet through physical activity is not leading your body. So where is it going to go? It's going to go into you. Will one of your relationships. And so if you're a married person at home, whether you have Children or not, it's going to come out. So number one, you're being impacted by stress more than you know, and it's coming out so we would encourage you If you're not having a physical outlet to find a physical outlet for some of that stress to come out, Number two are encouragement. Would be Thio deal with or fine, at least identify what is my normal stress coping mechanism? And is that stress coping mechanism a healthy one? And if it is not a healthy one? Am I humble enough to say, Can I find a more healthy way to cope with my stress rather than just dumping it or taking it out on a star? So what, you said,

spk_2:   7:17
I think the other thing that is the way it's impacting us is the fact that you we don't aren't distracted by all of the activity and the fury of just live that normally allows so many things to just be brushed under the rug. Right? So it's like for us we could have a Saturday where we go from fine sport events of the next. And so any relation attention that we might have just doesn't have the space and time to be dealt with. And so then we just kind of go on to the next day and then, you know, maybe forget about it, and then it builds up later. But now we don't have that to buffer, but which is a good thing, because it is forcing us to actually deal with the junk that we have in our marriage. But you're not comfortable with that place of complex in seeing what is coming out. You don't have the the gift of destruction that you're gonna have your having to be forced to deal with it. That would be another thing. I would say it say about it.

spk_3:   8:26
Yeah, that's really good. So life has come to a screeching halt, and so the dizziness and the distractions that we might have had were no longer having that. So we're having a face, quite a bit of stuff. And then also maybe the stress relief that we might find through different outlets. We may not have that ability anymore. And so, Jordan, um, you were saying, finding some healthy ways of coping with stress, What would be some different healthy ways to handle that?

spk_1:   9:02
Yeah. So, like I mentioned, if you have a like something that Christine and I are doing together, which we would encourage whether you're an active person, no night like it doesn't matter doing things together, eyes healthy. And so we have been doing core workouts together. And we don't get tau run in terms of jog as much as we did years ago, but in these days were able to go take a jog together, and therefore we are both getting stressed out of her body, were fatiguing our body. But we're also connecting on those jugs and getting to catch up on Dhe connect way. Think that that is a fantastic way to Munich.

spk_2:   9:48
Yeah. I think that it's different. I mean, we physical. The physical outlet is a big one, but they're Also, for other people, it might be like taking a few minutes to be quiet and let yourself just read a book and allow it the fury of what's going on. Just letting yourself just be still, like, literally be still not look at your phone because it's like you don't have not much going on. But we also have this constant barrage of information and just why even social media and all those things that are going So I think another way of de stressing is just like being silent for 10 or 15 minutes and reading a book or just not even doing anything. And just like sitting there and drinking a cup of tea and letting herself, like, literally be still before, uh, before the Lord, our report, Just your body be still. So that's another way, I would say to De stress.

spk_0:   10:50
Yeah, I read on article on the BBC, probably about a week and 1/2 ago. That was talking about people who are experiencing burnout during the quarantine and during the Kobe crisis because they feel this pressure to write the next best novel or two to get prison. Jack. You know, while they're at home during cross the, you know, like there, pull up bar, whatever. There's all this pressure, and, um and it just it struck me that there's a lot of that pressure that I feel, too. And I just need to put my feet on the ground, take three big deep breaths in and out, drink tea and just relax a bit, you know? So I really believe

spk_2:   11:29
you're saying Yeah, totally.

spk_3:   11:33
Yeah, that's really good. Um and then tell

spk_2:   11:38
me more

spk_3:   11:38
about the as you were talking about, You know, here we are. We don't have the soccer games all Saturday anymore. We don't have the running from one thing to the next. And so now we're seeing some things that we might have just slipped under the rug. I would love for you to unpack that somewhere.

spk_2:   11:59
Yeah, I So I think that, you know, there are different types of people that we've seen, like working with marriages. There are those that see, have a problem in your marriage and get really aggressive and wanna like, deal with it right away. But then that's one like sect of people. But I want people see an issue and then they just liketo bury it under the rug because it takes too much energy honestly, toe like deal with the conflicts and deal with the pain. Because sometimes when you have to deal with with a conflict, there's most of the times there's pain of all. And so I think that with this time is we don't have those buffers. And so we have the opportunity. It's a great opportunity that we can actually take the time to go to the hard place with our spouse and say like, Hey, this hurt and let me explain to you like why that hurt? And you can do it in a way that you're not rushed for time and you might not be like Super Chill will. You might still be supercharged at the moment, but you're not feeling the urgency of everything that's going on. And so letting yourself really dig deep in to the issue and take the time with it. And so I think that that's one of the guests that we do have work if you're willing to like, allow yourself to do the like, hard work and be uncomfortable with it in the process because it is gonna be uncomfortable. But I think what a great outcome to come out of this quarantine where we have better conflict resolution in our marriage is better communications because commit communicating because we taken the time to work on it with one another. So that's what I would say. But neither wouldn't say we do counsel people when you do have a conflict that comes up which there's gonna be a ton of conflict coming up in your marriage is because you're white. Go with both dead. You're under so much stress. And so any we're all under this like stress. And so that's gonna bring the conflict up. Don't actually deal with a complex when you're feeling the intensity of it, because it's usually not gonna go well at that moment. And so we counsel people toe stay like, Hey, I have an issue that I'm feeling like you really I got hurt by your actions at this time. When would be a good time for us to talk about it? And because all we have this time, in a way, you're getting to figure out when a better time like when it's agreeable time. Is that you all can come together to talk about it where you're not charged as much as you are at the moment. And the person that might be more of an internal processor can like, think about it and be a little bit more prepared. And that will make your conflict go really along better.

spk_3:   14:56
Yeah, that's so great. I love approaching the other person and saying, Hey, when is a good time for you to talk about this? Yeah, Yeah, You mentioned having better conflict and better communication. What

spk_2:   15:10
are some

spk_3:   15:11
other ways that we can improve conflict in communication as we're dealing with each other and face to face so much these days?

spk_1:   15:22
Yeah. So when we teach communication, you look at the research. It is disturbing, at least to me because that our communication is 7% words and 93% non verbal. And like he's talking about, you know, we're going to and froze. You just is a word of craze to those who are listening to this. We recognize that the majority of the seven billion people on the planet did not have healthy communication model for them, did not have healthy conflict resolution moment for them So anytime we're teaching on this, we just want to make sure we're not throwing stones. Or if anything, we want Thio serve, Come lo and to give. You know, Jules, have you thought about this? And we also said that most people are are all people. They're intelligent. They, uh they're clever. You know, They, uh they're trying different things. So we're just trying to save man. Way to go. Keep going. They'll quit you in all of this. But with that 93% of communication being non verbal in a simplistic way can be broken down into the tone and body language. Well, if we are often, one of us is at an office and one of us may be managing the home. Then, you know, our touches are are much more narrow, and they're they're less frequent. And I like you're talking about now that is really changed. And so those been be a number of touches. We We've been on some calls here even last few days with friends. How are y'all doing? Working and family lives And one of our friends. You stay an hour in the office will come out and get a snack or over you get some water, but there's a time. And so he's having stuff that he's dealing with that stressful because it's so different. But the house is also doing, you know, And so it's like more frequent touching. And Madeline me by touching, is interacting. And so that tone in that body language it is gonna is going to be augmented. It's gonna be exacerbated on dhe things that works. That might come out in a normal situation as a level three out of 10 with that tone and body language might go from a 3 to 7. And so then what? That's triggering in the spouse where a three might have just been beyond the brush it off to give him price. Let it go. Well, you just cross the threshold. And so now we're gonna have to. But where? How we're gonna do that? Because we haven't actually either had the time or have the jewels in the past. So, Christie, if someone crosses that threshold more frequent touches, what do you what do you say that

spk_2:   18:13
well, the thing that we do, which Jordan has done a lot of this with me in our My tone and body language is basically, if you see that happening is he'll be like Christy. Your tone was very first, like he'll give me that feedback and when we were first married, that would have probably made me mad, or it could crush you to the ground. But now

spk_1:   18:38
may make one defensive

spk_2:   18:40
yes, difference that were offended. But now I, as we've grown and make bringing awareness to one another in the way our tone and body language is coming off, it helps Negro. Like I actually didn't mean to be so harsh in the way that I was communicating that think that when I can walk by the spirit of God and say thank you, thank you has been for showing me that I'm being harsh with my tone. It will help me communicate better. And so then it's We're not getting so easily triggered and offended by one another, so bringing awareness to one another about our tone in body language and then also being aware of our own tone of body language like am I Am I coming? How am I coming off and giving that feedback to one another is a great maid and grow in the communication

spk_1:   19:31
and having a humble heart when you're when you're both the giver and the receiver of either if it's a correctional type of feedback. But we also we've been challenging folks here locally. If you look at the research the years, here's what the date is going to show you is that for anything that's gonna be husband, a wife, this could be a parent to child. Is going to employer to employees friend friend that the want the people that form the most effective team to securing the Harvard Business Review are ones that will give a ratio of about 6 to 1. A positive affirmation to correction. And so, in these days of the covert crisis, if you're listening to this, you think I'm sorry, I don't know the person that nails that one. Hey, it is certainly not me, but I am certainly convicted and challenged. Special is apparent to be like, Okay, I got it. I need any God to change my tone, how language works and we could keep on going. So just a channel in stir.

spk_0:   20:39
Yeah, that's so good that I'm 6 to 1 ratio. I don't remember if it was that exact ratio. But Ali remember, like, two years ago? Or maybe the lesson that remind me that of that with our kids. Hey, listen, you know, there's a lot of correction that happens, but I just read this article and it really was talking about the importance of giving so many positive affirmations, every correction. And, man, it hit me like a ton of bricks because I was just like, Oh, my gosh, if I can't think it's the opposite end for me, it's 66 correction. Think about that. Like what you're saying with my spouse with Aly? Um, yeah, just thinking of that as well is really good and just a good watermark. You know, like you're right. Like, who hits that? I don't know, But I'm gonna try to reach it, you know?

spk_3:   21:30
Well, And it's interesting, though, because I I see even in myself, as I feel out of control, I'm grasping for something, and here I am in this house where people aren't doing things

spk_2:   21:44
that I think they should be doing.

spk_3:   21:47
And so am I seeing then the correction even ramp up right now because I'm just looking for a place to put some control. And so I love what you're saying of. Okay, 6 to 1 like that's a really great, um, thing to wrap my head around of like, Oh, wow, that's that's not happening right now and that I could yes, by by

spk_2:   22:12
the grace of God that could, You know, this doesn't have to do with communication, but it made me think of something that I think it's helpful in these times that we'll we'll counter with that communication because they're so much intensity that we are all experiencing in our marriages. And we do want, like, girl in our marriages together. But I was thinking of something that one of the Jordan and I have one of the ingredients of intimacy that we have learned what just called join, accomplishment stand, um, join. Accomplishment is where you are. It's kind of like what it sounds like. It's where you together as a couple are doing something like accomplishing something together, and I feel like it's such a good tool in this time because there is so much intensity in our communication and with conflict and stuff. But when we can come together and like do something a project together which we do have more space, you know? Or that this time it build something into your intimacy that I think will help when those complex come and when that communication is hard that you have something kind of built together that brings good memories together. So that would be I just thought of that as we were talking about. It is just another tool toe. It's not directly related to communication, but I really think it will help build into your marriages If you could find something like Jordan and I yesterday like swept on our garage and like, uh, hosed it down and cleaned it all the way and honestly, I did not want to do it, but I knew it like blessed him and together, like, really built into our marriage. So then when he had a correction for me later that night, I did it like I wasn't. I could take it better because we had built something together, done something together. That makes it What are some

spk_3:   24:15
other ways that we can invest in our marriage these days? So you said joint accomplishment. What are some other If you had to capture like the top 3 to 5 ways that you could be investing right now. What would you say?

spk_2:   24:32
Uh, one. Another thing I would say would be taking a weekly in home date night. I think that it is really hard. You're together all the time. So you're like, Wait, how is this different? But

spk_1:   24:46
because if you have kids, they will say, Where you going? T o just going on a date,

spk_2:   24:52
You know, away. Uh, but I think that it is a super helpful thing to just honestly break out the man not need, Uh uh What, you're doing a life and give you something to look forward to you. I mean, her big advocates and right in her life to make time for a date night, at least have a couple of weeks. So that your sewing into your marriage. But even now, the monotony and the, uh, just day and they life you kind of take for granite one another. And so what? We have done this, like, picked up some takeout food. If that's an auction, so it's like a little different, but the kids cereal or something, you know, So I'm not having the cook is you eating them all the time when your arm's quarantine And so, you know, just put the kids away like put a movie on for them or something or put them to bed. But, like, do something different where you're connecting on that relation a ll front that will build that intimacy with you altogether. So that's one thing I would say in home date night.

spk_1:   25:53
Yeah, and And I think the key there since the context shooters to cope in crisis is on and without distraction. So we're not When Christie says, put the kids away that way. Love our kids and but we have to weigh communicate to them Mommy and Daddy for your own health, for Mommy and Daddy's health, we need this for some time. This is not a rejection of you. This is just a special time. And so I think it's important to, uh, just think. Think through the language in the communication on that, um, you know, another one would be picking an area. So this is what I find myself doing last month. Christy. It's extremely goal oriented. So some of your listeners some of you they're listening Our fall into that category, and I am quite goal oriented. I'm just not quite as ultra gold. Gorringe is my wife, but we know that some people hate bolts and kind of recoil against that. So where we are on that spectrum, let's say your style's happens to be on the goal oriented. Cider just has some things that they have ambition for, even for that day, and that could be something very small, some degree large. But I found myself doing is after Christie is very routine. And so when she goes from her time with God in the morning into her exercise time, I find myself going over to her calendar, where she has written out on the side, usually about eight different things for the day. Too ambitious, uh, and I will then go and ask her, Hey, what is one area? Mrs Sister, I'll say what's one area on any of these? And some of it I can't do anything about. And I'm not promising Mrs that I can. But my I want to communicate that my heart is to try to serve my heart is to try to join, accomplish or take up, even take a burn off and in the big scheme doesn't make that big of a difference to her. It doesn't. But for me it is. It's a training thing and it's like this. Remember, life isn't just about you. Y'all are a unit before God, you're actually one. And a win for her is a win for you. She does the same thing for me. That really helps us in these days where, you know, uh, you know, there's just change for you said

spk_2:   28:21
no, I think that's good.

spk_1:   28:23
You in here would be a different if you're if your spouse is not, you know, isn't writing things down to do just verbally asked them What is one area where I can serve you today and it doesn't have to be again. Give me small can be large but verbalizing Hey, I'm wanting to be in the thing with you. And then what did you talk about? Having time for? Monitor conversations, Maybe another

spk_2:   28:47
right and making yes, giving yourself space tow. Have the longer conversations kind of like what we talked about at the beginning, but scheduling it in in allowing yourself to be undistracted toe, have a conversation that's longer where it doesn't have to be conflict me. You know, sometimes it's gonna be complex related, but use us trying to dream together too. Talk about like, Hey, what? Why don't we want to go over with, Go after with our kids Are what in the next year, what would you like to see our life look like? That we're not walking. And now, like use the time to division cast of what you are. You're building this life together, and I think that this is a great space to make time to, like think about an ascot, what did me what to be together and how. And it's not just gonna happen if we don't, like, talk about it and plan for letting those things of making steps for those things to come into fruition.

spk_0:   29:50
I think that's a really powerful piece of advice, because I was listening to somebody the other day talk about his upbringing and how he had a very tough childhood, and so everything was survival oriented. So he never thought about the future. And in this time of of feeling like everything is survival oriented, even though for some of us that may not really be that, but it feels that way because the anxiety of the Kobe crisis, it can be tempting to just say Okay, well, we just gotta get through this day. And one of the things I love about you guys I remember this from our time in Dallas is that you have regularly built in time to your marriage to vision cast for your family vision cast for the year. Remember, you guys used to do like into the year vision casting retreats for you. Go off somewhere and just do that. And I think, yeah, what better time to do that than now and take advantage of it and to push back against the survivalist sort of instinct and say, Hey, listen, we're probably not have a time like this again for a really long time. Let's let's yeah, let's dream together. I love that. I think it's really, really good.

spk_2:   30:53
Yeah, make cider date. Make it a dreaming day together so you could get some takeout and what your questions be like. Let's let's dream together what our future is gonna be. Yeah, I I realized that when we have young kids, I thought even just for our kids, like, you know, you want them to turn out a certain way or, you know, by the grace of God. But I recognize there so many things that you could do if we don't narrow it in an ascot. Okay. What do you have her us in this season? It's just like, you know what? You're never making any progress anywhere where you're making these scattered progress. And so I've found it super helpful to like Have that for every area of life. So I'm not. That's encouraging,

spk_0:   31:40
guys, thank you so much for taking the time to give us some really helpful pointers. I feel like you guys have given us so much to think about and really practical advice. And so if people wanted to connect with you or here, Maura, about what you've learned about marriage and life together, how can they connect with you? How can they reach out so

spk_1:   32:03
marriageable dot or is a website where we've got the resources for singles wanting Thio become married. But we also have a link on there for those who are already married. So we have free love. Free resource is so some of the items we talked about today we just stepped through justice to 24. 25 we break that down with very practical. So coaching things. We have free coaching videos on there in terms of how do we talk about our physical intimacy on those types of relationships? A few different podcasts. So that's that would be the one on the website And that on the marriage minute you're talking about, that's Christie's instrument.

spk_2:   32:47
Yeah, my inserted via mutual instrument. They both Yeah, we were doing a marriage minute every day. Just one little thing that you could do. Important team toe. Like how l'd into your marriage. So

spk_0:   32:59
And what is your instagram handle? So people confined

spk_2:   33:03
Christy are did

spk_0:   33:05
so yes. C h r I s t y o g d and right.

spk_2:   33:10
Yes, Thank you. Sorry.

spk_0:   33:11
Now, just making sure. Make sure someone finds you and not Christie with kay. Yeah. Yes, guys, Thank you again so much. And for those of you listening, we're gonna we're gonna put some something on the web site for you all to have something practical to remind you what we've discussed here today. So be blessed. Be well and just know that we're praying with you and standing with you. Jordan and Christie are believing for your marriage and for your relationships as we walk through this together and seek to live them or of God together. And so be blessed. Be well and have a wonderful day.